Maybe they've always been Mordor
from qaz@lemmy.world to lotrmemes@midwest.social on 20 Feb 07:06
https://lemmy.world/post/25820829

#lotrmemes

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jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Feb 07:25 next collapse

[Insert Always has been meme]

Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org on 20 Feb 07:26 next collapse

It's not analogy, it's allegory. It applies too well to the world.

Zagorath@aussie.zone on 20 Feb 09:04 collapse

I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.

Comment105@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 10:29 next collapse

The fuck you on about, mate? You got a problem with allegories?

Zagorath@aussie.zone on 20 Feb 10:38 collapse

I dunno if you’re just memeing or if you genuinely don’t know.

In case it’s the latter…I posted a fairly famous quote from the author responsible for the text this community is based on.

dragonfucker@lemmy.nz on 20 Feb 11:03 next collapse

Fun fact: allegory had a different meaning back when Tolkien lived. Language evolved. Tolkien never mentioned hating what allegory now means - an interpretation of a story by the audience as representative of another issue. In fact, he said he was a fan of that sort of thing in your quote.

Zagorath@aussie.zone on 20 Feb 13:40 collapse

I’m not sure that I agree it has changed. To me, an allegory implies authorial intent. Some classic examples being Tolkien’s friend Lewis whose Narnia novels were an allegory for Christianity, George Orwell’s Animal Farm, an allegory for early Communist USSR, or The Crucible by Arthur Miller, an allegory for America’s red scare.

If it isn’t done with authorial intent, it’s still absolutely possible to be a valid reading of the text that there are parallels, but IMO that’s no longer an allegory.

dragonfucker@lemmy.nz on 20 Feb 13:53 collapse

The Matrix is a trans allegory, despite the fact that neither of the Wachowskis knew they were trans at that time. They put their feelings of gender confusion, dysphoria, and euphoria into the movie, despite not understanding those feelings. And it made it a masterpiece. That’s proof allegory doesn’t require intent.

Wrufieotnak@feddit.org on 20 Feb 11:49 collapse

I really didn’t know, so thanks for explaining it.

Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org on 20 Feb 10:48 next collapse

True. But in 21st century colloquial speech, a linguist would have to admit that, descriptively, "widely applicable" and "allegorical" are nearly synonymous. But I'm also a fan of the quote, history does not often repeat itself - but it rhymes. So whether it's fictional history or rough allegory, the end result is the same.

Zagorath@aussie.zone on 20 Feb 13:48 collapse

in 21st century colloquial speech, a linguist would have to admit that, descriptively, “widely applicable” and “allegorical” are nearly synonymous

Ha. You’re the second person to have suggested that, so maybe there is something to it. But to be honest I’m not sure I agree. I don’t think I’d ever use the term allegory without authorial intent. (But to save repeating myself, I’ll just direct you to my reply to @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz.)

Or, at the very least, even if you are inclined to disregard authorial intent, there’s still a subtle difference between allegory and applicability in that allegory requires an almost direct one-to-one relationship between the text and various elements of the real world, while applicability can be much more subtle or broad strokes. Basically, applicability is a broader term than allegory, a superset.

ByteJunk@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 19:19 collapse

Dear sir, may I refer you to my previous rebuttal to the esteemed colleague @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz

I can’t xD

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 20:06 collapse

Downvoted for disliking allegory.

Zagorath@aussie.zone on 20 Feb 23:26 next collapse

You downvoting granda Tolkien?

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 03:14 collapse

I’ll do it again

DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social on 21 Feb 00:29 collapse

It’s a Tolkien quote about his buddy CS Lewis’s Narnia and he’s up his own ass in it.

Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 07:52 next collapse

Friesengard

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 08:31 next collapse

Europe after stopping fighting the most brutal and effective wars for centuries:

You’re sure you want us back? We’ll be united this time too.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 09:13 next collapse

But like… hundred/-s of years ago we had a very different moral system? Which doesn’t justify nuts, but we recognize our crimes against humanity!

Do you not think that today the us wanting a colonial empire is so so so much worse?

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 10:06 next collapse

Potentially yes, but europe was so nice all in peace (compared to before).

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 10:12 collapse

Potentially? So a back when the populus couldn’t read then crimes against humanity was bad! But now, that the population can read now crimes against humanity are good? Makes a lot of sense

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 10:24 collapse

I answered your question about us imperialism. Should we too gang up? Probably yes. Will it only be giid? Probably no should we counter russia? Yes.

To be fair, your post is hard to read/understand.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 10:51 collapse

Maybe you should ask if you are not clear ab someone else’s post?

Lets take another run at it! You complain about our, European, crimes against humanity! The ones that we stopped doing and recognize them to be warcrimes ag humanity! Is your issue with that that we stopped doing them unlike you americans?

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 11:03 collapse

I was just jesting that we had the biggest most fearsomes armys ever, for good (fighting nazis) and bad (being nazis? Being imperialists, etc.) but we stopped “all that” and now putin pokes us enough to go back to our war stance (but this time we are united).

I don’t know what I said that made you think I’m pro imperialism or that I even spoke about crimes against humanity (it do happens europeans do them sometimes and that atrocious of course, but today it’s russia who do them every day, all day long).

Hope that clears it up!

frezik@midwest.social on 20 Feb 13:45 collapse

Are you under the impression that Europe is somehow inoculated against imperialism? It’s been fine going along with the US right up to this point, and has sins all its own.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 15:13 next collapse

Yea? Not only has no eu country made no attempt to acquire new colonies in the last hundred or so years, they actively deloconized!

In opposition to the US, that demands mineral rights among others in Ukraine! That keeps Guam uprepresented for another example, or for a third example their threats of expansion to greenland and canada! When was the last time any eu countries did anything like that?

frezik@midwest.social on 20 Feb 15:30 next collapse

Most US imperialist actions post-WWII haven’t been for territory. The modern version is more economic and abstract. It’s why Steven Pinker could write a whole book on why violence has declined in the world, be technically correct for the most part, but completely misses how the situation has transformed.

And yes, the EU is very guilty of it all, too. You can claim the US is worse, and certainly a revival of territorial imperialism is a regression to a horrible history, but this wholesale wiping away of EU sins is completely unjustified.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 15:51 collapse

Aside from me giving literally gave 3 examples of the US holding/pursuing territorial expansion while not giving/not planning to give representation(guam, canada, greenland)… Do you think that makes it good? Should we start praising Trump for only wanting the mineral rights of Ukraine?

Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity! But aside from stopping and holding bilateral development programs for them, da fuck are we supposed to do?

frezik@midwest.social on 20 Feb 15:54 next collapse

I explicitly said it’s a return to a horrible history. If you’re not going to take arguments that are given, then I think we’re done here.

[deleted] on 20 Feb 16:01 next collapse

.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 18:05 collapse

When? When did you say “…return to the past…”? You wobbled on about that us (complete fucking nonsense mind you, the cold war was a thing) and you vaguely stated that it did imperialism without stating a time or a specific event… So maybe you can try that? What country is doing what?

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 02:35 next collapse

Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity!

lmao 14 countries are forced to use France’s central bank. Do you think Africa sells you labor and resources for pennies instead of developing their means of production because they just love stripping their country of resources for you?

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 06:16 collapse

You should kind of read your links, you know? Doesn’t write a singular word ab how these 14 countries were aggressively forced to use the stable cfc instead of the hyper-inflating rand

I don’t see the link or the example where their resources are unjusty pilfered! I too can make definitive statements you know? American chedar is scientifically the grossest cheese!

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 06:27 collapse

Wait, you really don’t know about neocolonialism?

Also American cheeses as a whole are extremely mid, you’re not going to find anyone defending that shit out outside of Wisconsin.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 06:54 collapse

Again, can you maybe read your links? It exclusively gives examples of immortality of the US?

Also on a diff note:

It claims that the poverty of the peripheral countries is the result of how they are integrated in the global economic system. Dependency theory derives from the Marxist analysis of economic inequalities within the world’s system of economies, thus, under-development of the periphery is a direct result of development in the centre.

Which rlly sound like some nationalistic bs from someone who is butthurt from being colonized, doesn’t it? I am sure europeans rowed over to africa in small boats to claim colonies!

The economic dependency is another fun segment for implying that the smaller countries don’t want the larger one’s investment in return of soft power!

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 08:17 collapse

Again, can you maybe read your links? It exclusively gives examples of immortality of the US?

It literally doesn’t, scroll down.

The economic dependency is another fun segment for implying that the smaller countries don’t want the larger one’s investment in return of soft power!

The investment is in maintaining systems that keep resources flowing out as cheaply as possible. Yall aren’t sending dictators arms out of the goodness of your hearts.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 08:46 collapse

Unlike you I read your source, either quote it or move the goalpost again!

As for the other thats a typically US thing to do too 😂! The recently created jobs in hungary from the german auto industry or the janapanese medical industry are highly sought after for they pay a lot better than our industry average! You know the shit your companies pull, say nestle using slave labour in south america, would not fly here?

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 09:23 collapse

Neocolonialism was used to describe a type of foreign intervention in countries belonging to the Pan-Africanist movement, as well as the Asian–African Conference of Bandung (1955), which led to the Non-Aligned Movement (1961). Neocolonialism was formally defined by the All-African Peoples’ Conference (AAPC) and published in the Resolution on Neo-colonialism. At both the Tunis conference (1960) and the Cairo conference (1961), AAPC described the actions of the French Community of independent states, organised by France, as neocolonial.[39][40]

The politician Jacques Foccart, the principal adviser for African matters to French presidents Charles de Gaulle (1958–1969) and Georges Pompidou (1969–1974), was the principal proponent of Françafrique.[41]

The works of Verschave and Beti reported a forty-year, post-independence relationship with France’s former colonial peoples, which featured colonial garrisons in situ and monopolies by French multinational corporations, usually for the exploitation of mineral resources. It was argued that the African leaders with close ties to France—especially during the Soviet–American Cold War (1945–1992)—acted more as agents of French business and geopolitical interests than as the national leaders of sovereign states. Cited examples are Omar Bongo (Gabon), Félix Houphouët-Boigny (Ivory Coast), Gnassingbé Eyadéma (Togo), Denis Sassou-Nguesso (Republic of the Congo), Idriss Déby (Chad), and Hamani Diori (Niger)

You know the shit your companies pull, say nestle using slave labour in south america, would not fly here?

Nestle is Swiss.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 11:38 collapse

From where did you copy those paragraphs? I cannot find it with the ‘find it on page’ feature?

Ferero international S.A. is an American company, whiches largest majority owned by Blacrock

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 11:56 collapse

Third heading down, “former colonial powers and Africa”

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/451a5cfe-f435-46f5-9e7c-a482d0aef324.png">

Ferero international S.A. is an American company, whiches largest majority owned by Blacrock

Blackrock owns 4%. The majority of its shares are held by the Swiss. It is headquartered in Switzerland.

We’re getting in the weeds, the point is that Europe’s actions maintain an incredibly unbalanced trade with Africa; colonialism never ended, it just took on a different form. America does this too.

BrainInABox@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 16:42 collapse

Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity!

You’re still keeping all of the wealth though, naturally, and maintaining the system of unequal exchange that lets you increase that wealth.

guy@piefed.social on 20 Feb 15:57 next collapse

Queue historical materialism

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 16:01 collapse

?

guy@piefed.social on 20 Feb 22:05 collapse

It's a theory in international relations which argues that colonialism is all present today and excercised by mainly the West, but not in the form of guns and slavery but via the economical system and centre vs periphery

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 06:26 collapse

Oooooh

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 01:48 next collapse

Eh, colonialism has ended less than it has evolved.

theUwUhugger@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 06:25 collapse

What do you mean?

BrainInABox@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 16:40 collapse

Most of Europe is actively helping Israel exterminate the Palestinians in an act of brutal colonialism.

Mordred_85@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 21:11 collapse

Aye

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 13:54 collapse

Slavery and colonization is not “war”.

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 16:14 collapse

You have no idea what you are talking about.

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 19:28 collapse

You have no idea what you are talking about.

stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 10:28 next collapse

America may be able to join Russia, but ultimately the war in Ukraine is a war on Europe so how tf does Europe “join” Russia (besides handing over the entire territory)?

Johanno@feddit.org on 20 Feb 16:08 next collapse

How about Europe joins the war?

stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 17:13 collapse

no thank you

angrystego@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 17:56 collapse

I think that’s the point, that’s what Saruman here is advising, just like some European politics, unfortunately - to join Russia willingly, to become what Belarus is, a vasal state.

rosco385@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 10:43 next collapse

I will draw you, Donald, as poison is drawn from a wound.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzIjVKbxuec&t=128

Hackworth@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 17:28 next collapse

Oh, my friend

How did you come

To trade the fiddle for the drum

samus12345@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 17:28 next collapse

More importantly, why is EU Gandalf supporting so many pro-Sauron leaders when they have USA Saruman’s fall as a cautionary tale right in front of them?

MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 18:04 next collapse

Murica was never free, has always been madness

DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social on 20 Feb 19:50 next collapse

All states are tyranny, agreed.

MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 20:46 collapse

True but if you don’t have an army you’ll quickly become a slave to others who do have an army

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 23:53 collapse

We were freed from England. Slaves were freed from slavery. But, no, we were never freed from plutocracy. We’ve made attempts, though. There will always be someone trying to opress. There will always be a culture of servitude because in service of others power is concentrated.

Although, America has continued to fight for its freedom. Sometimes winning. Sometimes losing. As a result Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.

MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 01:57 next collapse

Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.

How are Americans more free than the native people that were on the continent before Europeans arrived?

Answer: They aren’t

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 01:57 collapse

Ok.

You really won the morality dick measuring contest we weren’t having.

MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 02:19 collapse

I said America was never free and you said

Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.

Why are your acting like you weren’t clearly disagreeing with me?

SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca on 21 Feb 02:54 next collapse

Slavery in the British Empire ended a generation before slavery ended in the US.

Sorry, but USA was founded on hypocrisy, pretty words about freedom and equality set down on paper by slave masters.

Everyone else in the world knows you get freedom by voting for it in election after election. Only Americans believe that freedom is granted by deified slave masters.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 02:56 collapse

Sorry, was your argument the British empire is more free than America?

Edit: also did you just call the gibberish that comes out my mouth flowery?

Seek help.

FiskFisk33@startrek.website on 21 Feb 04:45 next collapse

Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.

[citation needed]

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 04:47 collapse

I dunno read a book.

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 12:27 collapse

What books are you reading that you think 1776 was about anyone’s freedom except for the bourgeoisie’s freedom to exploit the working class and genocide the natives?

That’s not to say the people who did the fighting and dying didn’t think they were fighting for freedom, just that they were surprised when they were disenfranchised by property requirements and laws that favored the big bourgeoisie over themselves. You may remember Shays Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion?

If you’re looking for further reading, The Counter Revolution of 1776 is a good one.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 13:10 collapse

You’re proving my point by 1856 all states had removed the property ownership requirement for whites.

Please, just the bare minium reading comprehension next time you try to engage someone.

alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 14:19 collapse

by 1856 all states had removed the property ownership requirement for whites.

The purpose of that was to marginalize the freed slaves and keep the working class divided. The removal of the requirement wasn’t because a faction in power decided it would be nice and create a freer society, but because it gave them further power.

To quote LBJ a century later: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

Please, just the bare minium reading comprehension next time you try to engage someone.

Don’t condescend when you haven’t read shit on a subject.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 18:01 collapse

Do I need to walk you through every event that happened post 1856? Women sufferage, civil rights, this is my entire contention you clod. Just go away. You are not engaging in good faith.

BrainInABox@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 16:48 collapse

Although, America has continued to fight for its freedom. Sometimes winning. Sometimes losing. As a result Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.

Most brainwashed people on earth.

mariusafa@lemmy.sdf.org on 20 Feb 19:41 next collapse

Europe must join together send to shit USA and go full Gandalf the White

Mordred_85@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 21:09 collapse

May I suggest to evaluate the idea to side with Russia and go full homeland vs newland. I mean EU + Russia sided with China could smash the old USA. If USA leaves NATO the rest of NATO could integrate Russia. Top notch superpower, with a little topping of democracy. TL DR What if EU + RU Vs USA ?

I mean it’s easier for logistics once you build proper infrastructure. Better than an ocean

But don’t mind this comment nor take it seriously, what I want is no more wars.

Peace

mariusafa@lemmy.sdf.org on 20 Feb 21:18 collapse

For you ukraine doesn’t matter?

This whole template implies that Russia is Sauron. I wouldnt side with it.

Mordred_85@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 22:28 collapse

Of course It matters, as anyone. I was thinking if USA leave NATO what if we side with Russia, we as EU Ukraine included. But I’m not thinking of military strategy but an hypothetical scenario that would result as a no death stability of the new biggest, triumvirate between China Europe and Russia. Hopefully thinking that those countries are more inclined to have more civilized manners and thus permeable to democratic values.

VerifiedSource@sh.itjust.works on 20 Feb 22:51 next collapse

we side with Russia, we as EU Ukraine included

Become part of Russia’s empire is the only way this works.

Mordred_85@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 23:32 collapse

You are right and I am wishing for a third way, as equals as in EU. With Russia in EU the congress gonna be so much fun. They already are with one foot (Hungary), Serbia also would be dragged in ending the balcanization by making really peaceful. EU would have access to raw materials. Russia to cutting edge theory and tech. Lesser partner would be china!

VerifiedSource@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 03:05 collapse

Russia needs to fundamentally change for that to happen. Maybe even disintegrate a lose much of their central and eastern asian territory. Russia is too big to be easily integrated into europe.

Mordred_85@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 11:09 collapse

Yes, I agree but maybe some day Putin will leave the charge either voluntarily or by dying. What will happen then? Elections? Succession?

VerifiedSource@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 17:18 collapse

We will see. Putin has built a very stable authoritarian system that could very well survive him.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 08:25 collapse

“What if we abandon siding with one authoritarian and side with a different authoritarian” is not the good argument you seem to think it is.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 20:05 next collapse

The USA has been the bad guy since, like, 1952. Hell, it was post-Soviet Russia that joined with The United States back in the post-9/11 War on Terror period. And the Europeans aren’t Gandalf. You are a serf. Bitch, you live in Alsace. You are a peasant. You need to give your fuckin’ lord the grain. Your fucking children, you’ve had 15 children. You’ve never taken a bath. You’ve literally never. washed. your. penis. You’ve never used toilet paper. Motherfucker, you have worms. You are dying. You’ve had 40 children, 3 of them are alive. 2 of them are child soldiers in the Duke’s army.

Bitch, the greatest thing you can hope for is to die at the old age of 36. You fucking can’t read. You don’t know what TV is. If you were transported into today, you would be the worst gamer of all time. You don’t know shit. You literally probably don’t even know what the direction ‘left’ is. I’m sure some Medieval guy is gonna get mad at me for this, bitch I’ve been to the Renaissance Fair. I’ve eaten a large turkey wing, which the Juggalos call ‘bitch beaters’, which I think is problematic but a funny thing to call them.

Motherfucker, you gotta recognize where you are, and then you gotta get passed that. You gotta be unemotional. You can’t sink into this hole. You live in the oubliette. Your job is to crawl up the ladder, motherfucker. You live in the HOLE. You’re in the HOLE. You are a RAT. And the rat, when he’s in the hole gets fucked. People only throw trash in the hole.

You need to eat a body. And you need to carry the plague. And you need to carry a plague around this whole world, that will change this whole fuckin world. And all your enemies will vomit black bile and will choke on blood and will grow boils and die. But only if you get together with your other RATS. And you come up with some kind of super plague, to fuckin end your enemies and…

End. This. Nightmare.

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 01:46 next collapse

Get better soon.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 08:28 collapse
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 22:36 next collapse

Legend says it started with Trump getting a dirty sanchez in a Moscow brothel.

SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca on 21 Feb 02:48 collapse

I was there the day the strength of men failed.

VerbFlow@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 22:41 next collapse

I don’t like Putin, but showing serious political situations as blockbuster movies is a bit distasteful.

SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca on 21 Feb 02:56 next collapse

Pffft… Nowhere near as distasteful as Donald Trump turning the USA into a nation that’s all about betraying allies for money.

BrainInABox@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 16:52 collapse

Haven’t you heard? All politics can be explained through comparison to Harry Potter, Starwars, or Lord of the Rings.

Yaarmehearty@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 00:12 next collapse

I’m starting to think the same thing, if you go over US foreign policy since WW2 it is almost like the mask is just coming off entirely now.

Malek061@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 01:33 next collapse

What? You’re welcome for all that world peace and prosperity since ww2. It is about time Europe started to share this burden.

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 01:43 next collapse

Sorry to burst that bubble, but just because you were never taught about the things they’re talking about doesn’t mean they didn’t happen.

It just means your education system, like most, is run by nationalists that care more aboutv using mythology to make more nationalists than about conveying historical fact.

Quadhammer@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 02:25 collapse

Lol national mythology

funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 17:17 collapse

It’s pretty disingenuous to act like the US took sole credit, or that Europe didn’t share in the burden of WW2.

Plus re:world peace - the USA has been involved in 32 wars since WW2 ended, none of them on American soil.

Malek061@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 17:39 collapse

Check the numbers. Those are vastly tiny compared to ww1 and ww2. Small policing actions are necessary to keep dictators in line.

There wouldn’t be a ww2 without Europe. Their faulty treaties and failure to stop dictators led to the conflict. America cleaned it up.

eluvinar@szmer.info on 21 Feb 17:57 collapse

oh yes, the small policing action known as The Cold War that almost ended the human civilization

gabbath@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 21 Feb 11:43 collapse

America did a lot of bad stuff, to put it mildly. This is definitely something else though.

Yaarmehearty@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 13:01 collapse

I agree, that’s what I mean by it just going mask off, there’s no pretending about a probable cause of higher moral path etc this time.

frog_brawler@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 02:54 next collapse

2016

BrainInABox@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 16:47 collapse

Yeah, America was fine before that, just ask Iraq, lol. (and Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam, Indonesia, Korea, Chile, Panama, Cambodia, Iran, Palestine, etc)

darthelmet@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 03:08 next collapse

We live in a country that was stolen then we stole some other people so they could do the work for us. Then conquering half a continent wasn’t good enough for us, so we went around ruining other places if they didn’t want to give us all their stuff. If people think we only recently crossed a line, I’d generously hope they were just ignorant because the alternative is horrific. Every piece of the past is a step that got us to where we are.

prinzmegahertz@lemm.ee on 21 Feb 07:14 next collapse

The US is just Helldivers 2 in real life. A democracy managed by Elon Musk and people ready to die „liberty“, „prosperity“ and „freedom“.

Jackhammer_Joe@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 09:08 collapse

Don’t make me feel bad about my beloved Helldivers!

prinzmegahertz@lemm.ee on 21 Feb 16:28 collapse

Don’t feel bad. It’s not the devs fault that we live in a strange timeline

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 08:24 collapse

Murica, land of the free, was founded by people who owned slaves. While speaking about the evils of slavery.

So the madness was always there.

[deleted] on 21 Feb 08:40 collapse

.