Whats do you consider the best choice for private mobile browsing?
from stoicEuropean@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 28 Jun 09:40
https://lemmy.ml/post/49340660
from stoicEuropean@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 28 Jun 09:40
https://lemmy.ml/post/49340660
Hey everybody. I’m somewhat new to the field of privacy, but I am eager to learn. Right now I am wondering what mobile web browser to use for everyday activities. I’m running GrapheneOS. Options that often come to mind:
- Tor
- Firefox Focus (= Firefox Klar in German)
- IronFox (formerly Mull Browser)
- Cromite
- Vanadium
I feel like I simply don’t know enough about the underlaying mechanisms to elaborate which might be better and which might be worse. Feel free to teach me!
threaded - newest
i’d just use ironfox with ublock origin
Considering that already. Do you experience any problems or limitations with that? Like being flagged as a bot, or sites returning errors?
Edit: thank you for the suggestion!
i haven’t really used ironfox, i use iceraven. i actually also use numatrix alongside ublock origin.
i do see more captchas compared to common browsers like google chrome.
Rarely. I would say that about 19/20 pages work as expected. I do keep a manually hardened Firefox install on my device for the rare site that I do want to visit but that doesn’t load in IronFox for some reason. In my experience, VPN breaks the internet more than IronFox does. And I still want to use VPN.
I tried Tor for a while but it was too clunky and when used in conjunction with a search engine like Mojeek, was unusable. Whatever it was doing in the background made it impossible to search, with most failing due to suspected bot activity.
Using Ironfox now and its a bit better. I agree, the underlying stuff is complex so maybe I dont have as much protection with Ironfox than Tor, but I dont know enough about that to know enough about it, if you get me.
So I read what people are saying in posts like this and make a call based on that. I’m happy that I’m better protected than Chrome etc. so that is enough for now.
Its really SO complex the whole privacy (umbrella term) area, boggles my brain, but I’m thankful for people on here that know more than I do. Appreciate y’all.
Not everyone has the technical insight level of an IT professional. Thats why I love this community. Most people give you really solid advice. Thanks to everyone at this point!
Yes, this is the point: Search engines are harvesting YOU and YOUR SEARCH TERMS! TOR prevents that, and they don’t like it.
OTOH, DDG Search and DDG(Onion): duckduckgogg42xjoc72x3sjasowoarfbgcmv et al., almost always works for me. Startpage and Startpage(Onion), too, but Mojeek and Brave Search show results less often.
I made up my mind years ago to stick to TOR Browser and TOR VPN network for anonymity, privacy, and security regardless of poor response times. Today, I feel that that choice has been vindicated. TOR response times are no worse than they ever were, but response times viewing heavily ad-ridden sites with “normal” browsers have caught up. TOR blocks receiving a lot of ads and tracker folderal that “normal” pages spew out to all comers. It’s just that a handful of search engines — and many and yet more Web sites — will not serve content to TOR’s VPN network. But — You know what? — screw them!
I will admit to using the Chromium browser to retrieve must-have content from sites whose Web-hosting providers block the TOR network because — believe it or not — some of those sites don’t support Firefox. It’s deja vu all over again for those of us who lived through the Netscape Browser Wars.
But if I can’t search for something simple like World Cup Results, without it timing out or blocking a suspected bot, what good is search? It feels sometimes like we are going to have to back to memorising URLs! 🤣
Mojeek in particular I find very challenging. Unless I put in a very specific and multi word search term, I never get close to what I want. And yes, I know I know, thats the point. Google makes it so easy that you only need to think your search term and they give you exactly what you want, but you pay the cost in privacy. If Mojeek is a model for how raw/clean search engines work, then its people that need to change, almost more so than software. We need to be more patient and tolerant, be more specific in our search activities, and keep in mind that its a pain in the hole because we care about our privacy.
Its a big change though, lots of behaviour change required, almost like a detox or rehab, to be unconditioned from the convenience we are accustomed to.
Firefox Focus with AdGuard DNS
What’s your threat vector? From whom do you want to be concealed?
Mostly big corporate, big tech, and the US gov’t and its intelligence services. I am already in the process of migrating my digital environment towards Linux + self-hosting, but browsing remains a challenge to me.
Basically: I don’t want my devices location, metadata and telemetry to be tracked by anyone.
You could use a VPN and then make sure that your fingerprint is common. But if the VPN is compromised you will reveal your browsing behaviour. You also stand out when you use it.
I use Fennec becaue it was the only Firefox fork that played nice with all my extensions
Firefox mobile (so I can sync between my devices) with extensions installed like Privacy Badger and uBlock Origin.
Otherwise: Firefox Klar, Waterfox to sync all my work bookmarks between devices, Vanadium if I need anything google or chromium specific, and Tor.
I got tired of having two different profiles in GrapheneOS (a secondary with Google logged in), now I log in to my google account via Vanadium if I need to do anything like check GMail or Google Voice messages. I just live with never logging in to google maps, so I can’t save places or plan trips with friends in a streamlined manner. I work around it, screenshot the place in maps (logged out) or copypasta into an encrypted note taking app.
Search Portals: Searxng, 4Get, Qwant, Startpage, DuckDuckGo
Thanks for the advice, and thanks for the mentioning if 4Get. I just read about it. Awesome project.
Use Vanadium. On android, any Firefox based is lacking either in the sandbox or fingerprinting mitigation, plus extentions make you more fingerprintable and can possibly track you. Even on desktop they’re behind. Chromium based is much more optimized and secure.
I saw on GrapheneOS forum Vanadium is the better option, with Brave a second alternative. Also tor browser on android is not officially from the tor project and suffers from firefox android implementation. Browsers are extremely complex, they’re made to run external code in the wild securely. Quite an endeavor.
Vivaldi has been a good middle ground for me. Privacy respecting but still has features I want. It’s not perfect, but nothing is.
Yeah, I am a long time Vivaldi user myself. Up until now at least. I am quite happy with it, but from what I read, it has it deficits.
IronFox is not formerly Mull Browser; it uses a different basis (Phoenix instead of Arkenfox), is maintained by different people, etc.
Thank you for correcting me on that :) I’ll remember it.
Would be nice if you could correct it in your original post too.
I do like Fennec since it’s available on F-Droid and updated, ublock origin mandatory in any case.
I recommend Fennec by F-Droid, a FOSS fork of Firefox out of the options listed. I would adjust the settings within the GUI, such as setting tracking protection to Strict, and install uBlock Origin.
IronFox is, sadly, somewhat extreme and not suitable for non-tech-savvy users and those who don’t want to deal with regular breakage.
Vanadium sadly lacks a proper content blocker integration.
Edge: It has native privacy tools others don’t, sane default settings that can be changed, a curated extension store that is more effective than mv3, it still supports uBlock Origin, it’s not from some shady company like Mozilla or fly by night F-Droid garbage. F-Droid won’t even notify you if an app is abandoned, not updated as fast as elsewhere or give ratings from users.
Edge? From microslop?? You realize how laughable it is to call Mozilla shady while recommending MICROSOFT in a privacy community??
You must be ragebaiting
Sorry, do you have an actual argument? Even LiGNUxers often know Mozilla is shady af. Decades ago told us they can only exist because of our donations while using those donations for politics while making bank off Google. The only more scandalous browser I’m aware of is Brave. -But go ahead with your lol, teehee type responses if that’s your bag.
Not worth engaging with ragebait
I’m using this unofficial Helium build. It’s basically Vanadium + Helium patches with Extension support. Ublock Origin works like a charm.
From the linked GitHub webpage:
I wouldn’t recommend browsers in an experimental state developed by a single person; this is partly why I don’t recommend Cromite.
The original Vanadium is great, but the lack of proper content-blocker integration is a big privacy trade-off, in my opinion. Vanadium only provides a per-domain blocker solution, which is based on the very small EasyList.
A good Chromium-based alternative is Brave, as it has a solid content blocker that attempts to recreate the full feature set of uBlock Origin.
I get your point. But if you check the source you’ll notice that they don’t add any code themselves, they simply take Chromium and apply patches from Vanadium (Helium is commented for now) and build an apk. Yes, they call it experimental. Use at your own risk. I have had a very good experience so far - but you may disagree. However, there may be other people like me out there who think it’s a good value proposition.
A discussion like this is exactly the reason I love this sub. I am learning more and more every day. Thanks to both of you guys.
You’re welcome, I encourage you to check out my latest reply.
Quote from the README from the repository it sources the Vanadium patches from:
I’m sorry, but it’s an objectively bad recommendation. Vanadium is currently held intentionally exclusive to GrapheneOS by its team because of the reasons quoted above. Taking Chromium, applying Vanadium patches and extension support, and having one stranger maintain it is not a viable option. Even when he doesn’t write code himself, regular updates are a must, and if he discontinues or can’t keep up with updates for one of many possible reasons, all the people who relied on it will experience a massive security decrease if they don’t migrate to another browser. Real examples would be: Mull, Mulch and Bromite.
It’s something fun to check out and play around with, but no one should use it as a daily driver unless they fully understand all the risks and can act accordingly.
Vanadium on grapheneOS and using a privacy-preserving VPN.
Why not
LibrefoxLibrewolf? As far as I recall it’s basically hardened Firefox.I think you meant librewolf ? And if so, I believe it is desktop only.
There is LibreLynx Lite on F-Droid, but it is very bare bones. Do not recommend, especially while IronFox exists.
Yeh I meant that one, corrected, thanks!
On my phone I currently have the standard eOS browser, IronFox and Fennec installed. Only Fennec came with a new tracker after install, so that is going out again. Have used IronFox for at least the last year until I recently bought a FairPhone with eOS, so can recommend that as a daily driver.
I also use Vanadium on GrapheneOS
The lack of nice ad-blocking has me favor things like Iceraven, but for pure privacy it can’t be beaten
I’m on tailscale and have it route all traffic through my home server which runs pi.hole so…it ain’t that bad ¯\(ツ)/¯
I recently switched from regular Firefox to Ironfox. So far, I didn’t notice anything different, which is probably a good thing because that means everything still works as expected.
IronFox and Vanadium.
curl via Termux
Right now I use IronFox for browsing and Vanadium for websites I stay logged into. But the best one depends on your threat model.
Ironfox, though the main issue with all mobile browsers imo is no letterboxing, so if you enable Javascript, your phone screen size can be detected and used for fingerprinting