Neptr@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Jul 16:36
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Proprietary OS. Idc if it is “Linux”. Android is Linux, and AOSP is open source. Why use a proprietary Linux distro over something like GrapheneOS which is fully free and open source software. I don’t think any person who cares about their privacy should use SailfishOS. It really seems like privacy-washing and OSS-washing. I say kick proprietary Linux distros out of the community.
It’s true, I didn’t post this video to start a debate—I just wanted to share something that might interest this community.
I don’t have much time to devote to this kind of debate; everyone has their own agenda, and that’s fine. However, I’ve noticed that GrapheneOS users are particularly aggressive. I don’t have time for people like that.
Always nice to find someone interested in the discourse over the details. So rare these days. /s Have you any criticisms of GrapheneOS which are not based on hearsay that the devs and users are prone to being outspoken on security issues with other projects?
…because I do, and people like you are muddling the water!
Hide behind “dismissing GrapheneOS fanboys” all you want, but the points raised about SailfishOS being proprietary are valid. It is the same as running Samsung’s OneUI, or Google’s Android - the underlying core is FOSS but the layer with access to all your data is proprietary.
does that make it infallible to criticism? certainly not.
can certain people critique in a not so productive way? ofc.
does that make their criticism lose merit? partly.
the criticism put forth by the initial commentor is quite justified. but how abt their delivery? you seem to have made up your mind on that one.
this partnership is not a silver bullet that’ll end the OPSEC cold war. and treating it and GOS as such is utterly stupid. yes, GOS’ the best in this sector and quite bulletproof. but it does not make it invincible. if it had reached perfection then this partnership would be useless and GOS’ wouldn’t need to iterate. Jolla+Sailfish’s the rookie that needs to prove themselves in the same proving grounds that’s battlehardened GOS.
I’ve noticed that GrapheneOS users are particularly aggressive.
astute observation. the Linux community has plenty of them too. but w both groups people go poking the angry black bear and then cry out aggravation. kinda the same thing w researchers now that I think abt it.
enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Jul 05:28
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Oh shut up.
This is why we can’t have nice things. Everytime something took a step in the right direction the past two decades in open source, someone started throwing toenails around, scaring off people.
And while you throw ”proprietary” around with the toenails, you are the one here telling people to throw money at Google to buy a pixel. At least put your money where your mouth is and buy libre hardware.
Ubuntu, Android… even they have proprietary parts. That’s the business. SailfishOS does too, but only a small part (~20%) is proprietary, like some UI components and hardware drivers. It’s not fully closed, just a pragmatic mix to work on real devices. So yes, you gotta pay the Jolla team.
enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Jul 14:58
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No, you misunderstood me I think. I’m happy to throw money at Jolla, and I have done so.
I’m not impressed about people complaining that Sailfish is ”proprietary” while handing money over to Google.
sinextitan@lemmy.world
on 30 Jul 09:04
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This is why we can’t have nice things. Everytime something took a step in the right direction the past two decades in open source, someone started throwing toenails around, scaring off people.
nice to see GrapheneOS getting the kudos they deserve.
enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Jul 14:56
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The Graphene team are probably fantastic people.
The toenail-slingers are usually not writing that much code.
666dollarfootlong@lemmy.world
on 30 Jul 10:32
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Agreed, annoying how much people are moving the goalpost for this thing. It’s an actually usable alternative to android and ios, with hardware features literally voted by the community. It’s not perfect, but it’s actually viable, with features people actually wanted.
OccasionallyFeralya@lemmy.ml
on 30 Jul 17:23
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Buying a used pixel on eBay doesn’t give Google any money. I agree with the rest of you point but I think it’s facetious to act like you have no option but to pay Google directly to get a pixel.
enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Jul 17:26
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Second hand market also drives demand.
gankouskhan@bookwyr.me
on 29 Jul 20:19
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Depending on what you value and expect from a “more” private device than the main hardware brands and their software these are not particularly secure physically, and to some extent via software. It’s somewhere between pixel flavor of Android and grapheneos. Steps in the right direction. I will be watching for future versions especially as they come to be viable in the US.
Little reading on what I’m referring without a deep (and albeit opinionated) dive by the graphene team on the hardware, and similar but done by other teams for sailfish specifically.
Edit: That is opinionated as in the architectural decisions and trade offs made to reach a certain level of protection not as in bias or “opinions”. Aka software usage of opinionated in the way that a framework might be.
Edit Two: Listed graphene as the high end of security for our current offerings in the consumer space that are still considered full featured smart phones. iOS is also a contender, but they aren’t as concerned with privacy as grapheneos is. They are a business first. Privacy for them while it does exist is a means to an end. Marketing doing it’s thing.
threaded - newest
I just want to buy this how can I in America
Obviously you can use a parcel forwarding package forum.sailfishos.org/t/…/1
I’d be very careful about ordering something designed for another continent’s cell network.
Absolutely! There is also a forum thread that discusses this topic: forum.sailfishos.org/t/…/30366
Proprietary OS. Idc if it is “Linux”. Android is Linux, and AOSP is open source. Why use a proprietary Linux distro over something like GrapheneOS which is fully free and open source software. I don’t think any person who cares about their privacy should use SailfishOS. It really seems like privacy-washing and OSS-washing. I say kick proprietary Linux distros out of the community.
Another GrapheneOS fanboy 😞
Not an argument
It’s true, I didn’t post this video to start a debate—I just wanted to share something that might interest this community. I don’t have much time to devote to this kind of debate; everyone has their own agenda, and that’s fine. However, I’ve noticed that GrapheneOS users are particularly aggressive. I don’t have time for people like that.
Always nice to find someone interested in the discourse over the details. So rare these days. /s Have you any criticisms of GrapheneOS which are not based on hearsay that the devs and users are prone to being outspoken on security issues with other projects?
…because I do, and people like you are muddling the water!
Hide behind “dismissing GrapheneOS fanboys” all you want, but the points raised about SailfishOS being proprietary are valid. It is the same as running Samsung’s OneUI, or Google’s Android - the underlying core is FOSS but the layer with access to all your data is proprietary.
For the record I don’t use GrapheneOS.
is it intriguing? sure, why not.
does that make it infallible to criticism? certainly not.
can certain people critique in a not so productive way? ofc.
does that make their criticism lose merit? partly.
the criticism put forth by the initial commentor is quite justified. but how abt their delivery? you seem to have made up your mind on that one.
this partnership is not a silver bullet that’ll end the OPSEC cold war. and treating it and GOS as such is utterly stupid. yes, GOS’ the best in this sector and quite bulletproof. but it does not make it invincible. if it had reached perfection then this partnership would be useless and GOS’ wouldn’t need to iterate. Jolla+Sailfish’s the rookie that needs to prove themselves in the same proving grounds that’s battlehardened GOS.
astute observation. the Linux community has plenty of them too. but w both groups people go poking the angry black bear and then cry out aggravation. kinda the same thing w researchers now that I think abt it.
Oh shut up.
This is why we can’t have nice things. Everytime something took a step in the right direction the past two decades in open source, someone started throwing toenails around, scaring off people.
And while you throw ”proprietary” around with the toenails, you are the one here telling people to throw money at Google to buy a pixel. At least put your money where your mouth is and buy libre hardware.
.
Ubuntu, Android… even they have proprietary parts. That’s the business. SailfishOS does too, but only a small part (~20%) is proprietary, like some UI components and hardware drivers. It’s not fully closed, just a pragmatic mix to work on real devices. So yes, you gotta pay the Jolla team.
No, you misunderstood me I think. I’m happy to throw money at Jolla, and I have done so.
I’m not impressed about people complaining that Sailfish is ”proprietary” while handing money over to Google.
My answer is along the same lines as yours 😉
nice to see GrapheneOS getting the kudos they deserve.
The Graphene team are probably fantastic people.
The toenail-slingers are usually not writing that much code.
Agreed, annoying how much people are moving the goalpost for this thing. It’s an actually usable alternative to android and ios, with hardware features literally voted by the community. It’s not perfect, but it’s actually viable, with features people actually wanted.
Buying a used pixel on eBay doesn’t give Google any money. I agree with the rest of you point but I think it’s facetious to act like you have no option but to pay Google directly to get a pixel.
Second hand market also drives demand.
Depending on what you value and expect from a “more” private device than the main hardware brands and their software these are not particularly secure physically, and to some extent via software. It’s somewhere between pixel flavor of Android and grapheneos. Steps in the right direction. I will be watching for future versions especially as they come to be viable in the US.
Little reading on what I’m referring without a deep (and albeit opinionated) dive by the graphene team on the hardware, and similar but done by other teams for sailfish specifically.
https://hivesecurity.gitlab.io/blog/jolla-phone-privacy-threat-model-2026/
Edit: That is opinionated as in the architectural decisions and trade offs made to reach a certain level of protection not as in bias or “opinions”. Aka software usage of opinionated in the way that a framework might be.
Edit Two: Listed graphene as the high end of security for our current offerings in the consumer space that are still considered full featured smart phones. iOS is also a contender, but they aren’t as concerned with privacy as grapheneos is. They are a business first. Privacy for them while it does exist is a means to an end. Marketing doing it’s thing.
The alternative is FairPhone and e/OS (OpenSource)