from Dave@lemmy.nz to selfhosted@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 05:37
https://lemmy.nz/post/16752078
I decided to clean out my CPU fan as it was clogged, when I assembled everything again it wonāt turn on š
Itās an old desktop PC. There are no lights glowing on the motherboard at all, though there is none specifically labelled āpowerā. Just CPU, RAM, BOOT. None of these light up, not even a flash when it starts.
I have reseated the RAM, CPU, power cables. Removed the GPU to check.
The cord leading in to the PSU works but I donāt have a way to test the PSU itself or the out cables, but I have reseated them at each end.
This PC was working fine before. But with no lights on the motherboard I suspect either the mobo or PSU?
Mobo is asrock x570 PSU is silverstone 650w strider gold S series
Any help appreciated!
Edit: I made a new post asking for hardware recommendations.
Edit 2: I managed to get a light on the motherboard, going to buy some more thermal paste and keep tinkering to see if I can get it started!
Edit 3: I never got that light to go again. In the end the comments on the other post convinced me that I had all that I needed for what I wanted (no upgrade needed), so I changed tack to seeing how to fix it. I had suspicions about the power connection still, so I bought a cheap PSU and tested it, no change. Then I bought a new motherboard (also a pretty cheap one, the cheapest that had what I needed and was also in a local store) and in the end that was the issue. Everything is up and running again now! Thanks for all the help everyone, you can now settle your bets.
threaded - newest
Is the power switch on the PSU flipped on? Are the front panel wires seated in the right places on the motherboard?
Those are the two that get me when reassembling. I used to have an asrock 320m that had absolutely no grip on the front panel wires and it was easy to unseat one when blowing air into the case.
Iāve flipped the PSU switch both positions, doesnāt really work either way.
Iāve reseated the case power switch cable but it didnāt help. I also tried shorting with a screwdriver in case it was the switch, but nothing š
You mentioned a buzzing in another reply. That sounds like a grounding issue to me. Any chance you blew something under the board that is causing a short? At this point it would be wise to do a full tear down.
Iām almost at my train stop, so one final question before disappearing for the day: when resocketing the CPU did you put it in correctly and was there damage when you removed it initially?
Yeah I will probably do an out of case, mobo, RAM, CPU, PSU only at some stage tonight to test.
Yes on the CPU damage, some bent pins on a corner, but I straightened them and it went back in fine. I had assumed the CPU light would be glowing (or not glowing) if that were the issue, but Iām no expert. Maybe it is the CPU. Expensive to buy one just to test though!
Edit: oh and the buzzing is from the PSU, when off, and not connected to the PC at all.
These lights and beep sequences aren't 100% reliable. So I wouln't take it for granted. But it's a bit suspicious in my eyes that none of the LEDs light up. Maybe it's the PSU, then? I mean it could be anything. And in my experiences it's most likely a cable that got unseated accidentally by the vacuum... But you mentioned it's a server... And I've had PSUs fail after being online 24/7 for years, and then one day you turn off the power and they won't ever come back. And with the bent CPU pins I'm not sure. Most of the times straightening them works, but sometimes they break off after doing that.
These kinds of diagnostics are next to impossible without some spare parts, to swap one at a time and see which is at fault. If you don't figure it out by chance, you'd need to borrow some.
Iāve done a paperclip test, PSU fan starts up, but doesnāt when plugged into the mobo.
I have now done an out of case test, with CPU, RAM, mobo, PSU, and no luck.
I guess that means mobo or CPU is the issue. I would think if it were RAM the symptoms would be different.
I took the CPU out yet again, all the pins look fine. They didnāt get munched being inserted the last time, so it seems they straightened OK. But at this point it has to be CPU or mobo, surely.
It does seem like that.
(Be sure to thank the kit for its years of service)
And if you triggered any failsafes they would have reset by now.
The mobo button battery can rarely make seem the mobo dead, but usually still does at least something.
(Iām not saying itās likely, just that itās the last thing I can think of)
It wasnāt that many years, I checked and I got the whole setup in 2019. A little over 5 years. It hasnāt been running as a server for that long, perhaps only 6 months. Seems like a premature failure. I probably messed it up by doing something wrong when cleaning. Static maybe? There isnāt anything obvious on the board that l can see, no burn marks, no ozone smell. I guess Iāll look at ordering a new mobo and then new CPU if the mobo doesnāt work. Annoying though, because if I have to get a new CPU I probably want an upgrade, but if itās just the mobo probably not.
Thanks for the help š
Agreed. And I'd say the mobo is more likely, as it has more different components like capacitors and whatnot. So just by volume.
As a final test you could rip out RAM, GPU etc disconnect all unnecessary cables and run just mobo + CPU + PSU. See if it beeps/lights up or changes anything. That'll rule out a short in some other component being the issue.
I mean we're not 100% sure, but looks like you're in for a new mobo (+CPU).
I already removed all cables and extras when I did the out of case test, didnāt think to try without the RAM. I will give that a go tomorrow, Iāve had enough for tonight,
It looks like I can still get a mobo that supports the socket, so in theory I should be able to just swap the mobo. But then if it doesnāt work Iāll have to get a new CPU next and then Iāll wish I didnāt get the mobo because Iāll probably get a more recent CPU. Hard choices!
For the moment, I have requisitioned a laptop and booted from the server hard drive, and things are back up and running. So I donāt have to rush, Iāll try some more tomorrow, have a think about what Iād like. Maybe Iāll just get something new, and auction off the mobo, CPU, RAM online $1 reserve and someone else can work out what does or doesnāt work . š
Did you flip a power switch on the PSU at some point, perhaps? (Done that one a few times myselfā¦)
Iāve tried in both positions.
Might sound weird but I can hear a quiet buzzing in the off position (O) and silence in the on position (1). But I donāt have another to check whatās normal.
Mind trying another power socket just to eliminate potential environment problems?
Did it, and also did a paperclip test. PSU seems fine, itās getting power.
Itās generally the reverse thing that happen you can hear the buzzing when on and not when offā¦ š
Thatās why I mentioned it! It seems logical. Normally 0 is off and 1 on, right? I tried in both positions but it buzzes when in the 0 position.
This sounds illogical to me
For the record, I did a paperclip test and the PSU seems fine. 1 is definitely on, 0 off, and the buzzing is when itās off š¤·. Itās not loud, you can only hear it when held up to your ear.
Is there any chance the buzzing is actually from what you have the PSU plugged into? I think ive had a surge protector that have a buzzing without anything drawing power that went away once something was consuming power.
Definitely the PSU, but itās not drawing power so maybe the buzzing would go away if the PC was drawing power.
And when you unplug the power it goes?
Yeah, may just be that the PC isnāt drawing power, the buzzing might go if it was.
If you got another psu then that would probably be the simplest way to verify if its the psu or not.
I donāt. No other desktop in the house, no spare parts š
Itās dangerous and you can blew it if you donāt know what are you doing but by shorting two specific pins, itās possible to turn on the PSU and see it itās working or not
Did you use a vacuum on the fans and let them spin during the clean?
Not on the PSU fans, and was using canned air cleaning stuff.
Someone else posted a link about testing the PSU. Iāll consider it.
When you tear down next, look for missing board components or any that lean at an angle theyāre not supposed to. Canned air has been known to shear poorly-attached caps or whathaveyou clean off the board. Or maybe one of the wires in the 12v cable is broken and itās delivering power just to most pinsā¦ The paperclip test just tells you if the PSU is dead dead, are you able to test with a multimeter instead?
Buzzing while the power supply is off makes me wonder if thereās literal bugs in it, if itās buzzing while itās unplugged. I suppose the buzzing could also be remaining power discharging, if it happens just after itās been unplugged.
Honestly the canned air I have doesnāt blow that hard, it struggled taking the dust off I doubt it could damage anything. I have had a look over the board and thereās no obvious damage.
Iām thinking todayās plan might be to buy a multimeter.
The buzzing is immediately after being switched off, so you could be right, could be power discharging.
I pulled a psu out of my rig over the weekend. I was just going to chuck it on Trademe for $1. Let me know if you need it, though shipping might take a few days.
I did a paperclip test and the PSU seems fine, but thanks for the offer. Got to be mobo or CPU I think.
One (or more) of the electrolytic capacitors in your PSU has died.
Remove the power cord, wait for 2 hours, open the PSU and look carefully for the candidate(s) with the domed head. Healthy ones are perfectly flat on the head.
Order a new one and replace it.
I did a paperclip test, PSU seems fine.
What did you do?
What did you expect?
What did you observe?
I followed someone elseās instructions. Expected putting a paperclip in in and plugging it in/turning it on would cause the fan to start up. It did.
robots.net/ā¦/how-to-power-up-psu-without-motherboā¦
Fan in PSU started up fine, apparently this is a sign that the PSU is not dead. Fan does not turn on when connected to the motherboard, which supports the theory that the PSU isnāt the issue.
I had this exact issue on an old gaming PC, PSU wouldnāt power the MB, but would be fine by itself. My GPU had a short, gods know how it happened. Juts keep disconnecting parts and try powering up again until you get the LED indicator. If everything is gone and it still wonāt power on, itās the MB. You could get a multimeter and measuring the power lines to see if there is a short (5V to ground, 12V to ground and I think there are 24V lines?). Maybe look for burst or burned capacitors and if youāre crafty and able to solder replace them. Otherwise replace the MB or defect parts.
I bought a multimeter and followed a youtube video to test the power supply, all the voltages are correct so it seems itās fine. Itās got to be the motherboard or CPU as Iāve tried an out of case test with just CPU, mobo, PSU, RAM (and also tested without the RAM) and thereās no sign of life at all.
You havenāt followed the proper tech troubleshooting ritual:
Well I got up to step 6, not sure how to get to the next stepā¦
Addendum to step 7: if it doesnāt work fine, go back to step 1.
For the record, it was definitely on. I ended up buying a new PSU to check, and it didnāt help. I then bought a new motherboard and that fixed it. So case solved!
Did you maybe unseat the tiny power switch/activity led front panel cables?
Iāve tried just directly shorting the power switch on the mobo to rule out issues with the case switch, but that didnāt help.
Well, reading this and the rest of this thread, I canāt think of anything else. Since you ruled out pretty much everything else, I would now put my money on one of the parts shorted during cleaningā¦ anecdotally Iāve heard parts dying by shorting them with your fingers, but it never happened to me, so that would be pretty unlucky.
Last time I did a cleaning of a particularly dusty system, a dustbunny flew in the PCI-e port without us noticing (it was dark and circumstances were not ideal). With the GPU Re-inserted, that was enough for the system to behave similarly to yours, but you re-seated everything soā¦ That would eliminate this as a possibility.
You could share a photo of the current situation, a top down of the mobo? Eliminate chances you are missing something by secondary means(as opposed to just text)?
Sure thing, hereās a photo:
<img alt="top down photo of motherboard" src="https://lemmy.nz/pictrs/image/cb108c93-f914-4ec7-a17a-a6b7cfc0167c.jpeg">
Itās sitting inside the case but not installed, no cables connected, Edit:
RAM is out.RAM is right there in the photo š . I left CPU in because I donāt want to have to do that one yet again šThis photo makes it look quite dusty haha, but this is after cleaning!
One thing that was only mentioned briefly by someone else is the physical button turning on the computer.
Similar to the paperclip test figure out where the power button goes into the mainboardw and bridge that with a short cable. Is possible that by moving the case the old button lost a cable.
This is just one more thing to test though, itās really trial and error as you know :)
One of the first things I tested š. Iām almost ready to give up, buy a new mobo/CPU/RAM and then auction the old stuff off online for someone else to work out what does or doesnāt work š
How does everyone have spare parts to try, it seems almost every generation you have a new CPU socket and new RAM type so you canāt use the old stuff!
Iāll probably be asking for hardware recommendations soon haha
I bought AMD, and I keep old computers around. Hereās my progression so far:
So, if I needed to, I could:
For extra parts, I have:
If I was doing this solo, Iād still have my old mobo and CPU, so I could at least downgrade to that.
I think your advantage is needing two machines. Then you can swap stuff between them to test as well.
I gave away my previous build in whole and built a new one. No spare parts š. And my SO and I are generally using laptops day to day, no need for more desktop machines and canāt swap pieces between laptop and desktop.
I donāt think having an old mobo/CPU would help anyway, Iām pretty sure one of the two is broken and swapping both out wonāt help work out which one.
Sure, but even without a P2, reusing the old PC when upgrading was the main thing. I havenāt actually used my SOās computer for anything yet, itās just a hot spare should I need anything.
I honestly canāt use a laptop as my main machine because I (and my SO) play games, and using a laptop would mean a lot more frequent upgrades. I have a laptop, but it doesnāt need very high specs since itās just for trips (mostly videos and web browsing). My laptop is ~6 years old and still does everything I need it to, whereas I upgraded my desktop three times in 7 years (CPU twice and GPU once).
If you had an old mobo and CPU, you could downgrade and keep the NAS running until you had a replacement. I upgraded my NAS because I already had the hardware and wanted better power efficiency, so I could totally go back if I needed to. In my case, Iād downgrade until I upgraded my desktop, then re-upgrade my NAS. Iād probably use my SOās old machine, but it works with any spare PC.
I donāt do a lot of gaming these days. When I played Baldurās Gate 3, once I got to Act 3 I switched to streaming from the desktop to the laptop using the Steam function as my laptop couldnāt handle it. I also donāt do upgrades as frequently as you.
Good point, I didnāt think of that.
I donāt do upgrades very often either. Hereās my rough history:
Iām still using 5 today, so in 10-15 years, I had 3 GPUs (gave 2 to SO when I got 3), 3 CPUs, and 3 mobos, and I only upgraded the mobo in 5 because I wanted to reuse my 1700 in my NAS. My NAS currently has 2 & 4, and 1 & 3 is a hot spare if anything dies.
In that time, Iāve had 3 laptops:
1 & 2 are e-waste and cannot be reused.
If you donāt count my SOās devices, I think Iāve spent about the same on laptops as desktops, and my laptops have been very budget devices (no dGPU), whereas my desktops have been pretty midrange and Iāve been able to play whatever I want.
Iām thinking of giving my kids a PC, and if I do, itāll be my SOās old PC. If I do, 3/4 of our PCs over the past 15 years will still be in use vs 1/4 of our laptops (SO had a laptop that died before I built the first). Thatās a pretty good track record IMO.
I use a laptop most of the time because then I can sit in a recliner with my feet up. I spend the day at a desk I donāt much fancy doing the same in the evening.
I have a Framework laptop from the first ones they made, which are upgradeable and repairable. Unfortunately they donāt ship to NZ, I got mine by freight forwarding and also got parts a bit later the same way. But now they have cracked down hard on freight forwarding as I recently learned, so I canāt get any more upgrades until they start shipping here (no announced plans).
That sucks about freight forwarding.
Iām considering getting a Framework for my next laptop as well. But my current laptop works well enough, so Iām in no hurry. If they offered a Trackpoint option or at least put physical mouse buttons above the trackpad, I wouldnāt have any hesitation because I love that on my Thinkpad.
But honestly, I use my laptop a few times/year, other than my kids playing Minecraft on it (hence wanting to get them a computer of their own). Most of my gaming is on my Steam Deck or Switch, so I only really use the laptop when we travel or if we have guests over and I need to get something done when everyone is watching a movie or something, and a lot of the time Iāll use my work laptop instead since my kids often use both my desktop and laptop.
Yeah they only have the one trackpad option. I tend to use a mouse anyway.
Probably not much point in getting one if youāre going to build your kids a PC anyway.
By the way I managed to get a light on the motherboard, so it might not be dead after all. Iām planning to get some more thermal paste today and keep tinkering, I might save it yet.
Good luck!
The luck didnāt help haha, I never got that light again, except for occasional split second flashes. I edited some info into the original post, but long story short, after lots of fluffing around in the end it was the motherboard. I got a new one and now Iām back up and running!
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Have you tries unpluging it and plugging it in?
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Did you use compressed air to clean out the fans?
Itās possible to fry circuitry if you artificially rotate the fans too fast, as this generates an electric field more powerful than the fans and their attached components are rated for.
Probably rare to cause damage with modern computers but an old PC might be more susceptible to this type of damage.
I joked the dust was what was keeping the PC running when this happened to me. But your explanation makes more sense. Dang
Not compressed air from an air compressor, just the canned stuff. I donāt think I spun any fans too fast. Plus the PC is only 5 years old.
Compressed air can spin the fans fast enough to cause damage unfortunately.
Probably not this one. I was a little disappointed with how little airflow this can gives me. In any case, I donāt think I spun any CPU fans around much at all.
Have you tried turning it off and on ag- oh.
In all seriousness, maybe a blown capacitor of any kind? You describe the PC working fine ābefore.ā When was ābefore?ā
There is no obvious damage on the motherboard, capacitors look fine.
āBeforeā was immediately before I turned it off and opened it up to clean out the dust. It was being actively used as a server.
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Does the power supply work
Yip. Have tested the PSU with a multimeter and itās fine. Narrowed it down to the CPU or motherboard. I decided Iāll just do a bit of an upgrade and get a new CPU, motherboard, RAM.
Iām leaning toward a short somewhere, since you said the PSU starts up with the paperclip but not when plugged in to the board.
I bought a multimeter and tested the PSU, and it all seems fine. So pretty sure itās the motherboard or CPU.
Iām using it as an excuse to do an upgrade, so will probably get a new mobo/CPU/RAM.
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